Matt Steffanina breaks down why creators require an online community
From the basic top 8 of Myspace to Facebook Groups that you can only join privately We've all been part of communities through social media. In the past, social media platforms have allowed creators to foster thriving communities both privately as well as in public posts.
With a growing laundry list of problems that social media has been unable to fix, it is losing its place in the role of a community-building tool and administrator it was once. As a result, creators and business owners everywhere are starting to notice its inefficiencies for what they are.
The 2021 Facebook outage may be to blame for this initial change in attitudes. A short six-hour period when the platform was down led small businesses and creators alike to lose access to their audience and website traffic, causing widespread revenue loss. There have been reports of losses up as $5,000 in dollars.
To understand the importance in hosting a social community outside on social networks, we spoke with the master of online communities himself, Matthew Steffanina. Steffanina is an internationally renowned and owner and founder of the DNCR Academy.
Since launching the YouTube channel in 2009, Matt has grown a modest following of over 30 million users across all platforms. The popular dancer is known to be a part of stars like Taylor Swift, Jason Derulo and Meghan Trainer. Not to mention appearances on television shows like So You Think You Can Dance.
Through his YouTube dance tutorials and in-person lessons, Matt formed a tight-knit group of dancers who were passionate, but after the outbreak of the flu and classes for #IRL were stopped, YouTube simply wasn't cutting it as a way to reach out to his followers or make a profit. Then he resorted to online courses and an online community to create a lasting impression on his audience and create an income-generating business.
Dive into our Q&A with Matt to discover the ways he's built an extremely successful business as well as online community--and why he believes that it is the most important factor to creators owning their future.
Note: Responses were lightly edited to improve clarity.
Send us an introduction to your background and what you're up to.
My name is Matt Steffanina, and I'm a choreographer and music producer in L.A. However, the past 12 years of my life have been primarily dance and choreography. When I first started out in the business, I was in collaboration with musicians, however, all along the way I started my own YouTube; posting videos about my classes, my personal life and tours. Basically, following along, vlog style. One of the most difficult challenges of being a professional dancer, especially ten years ago is that you had to rely on your agent or artists to provide opportunities. There was no way to create opportunities for yourself as an individual dancer. In my early days I would sit by the phone for an opportunity to be auditioned. At first, YouTube was an opportunity for me to be productive, and continue working on my skills, as well as to advertise myself as a dancer. I didn't think I could have imagined it would do what it has done. In the year I was on, I added around a million subscribers, which at the time was a lot. In the end, I wound having opportunities to work with Ja Rule and Taylor Swift, and Meghan Trainer.
But the other thing that I really loved was instructing. Early on I started a second [YouTube] channel called the Dance Tutorials Live, where people could learn how to dance. I have built up a community of dancers across the world. The most rewarding part of everything that I've done is listening to the tales of the students' accomplishments. The stories are really crazy as, at the time, I was just filming tutorials in the local studio using my tripod. I had no idea of making an impact at all It's been quite an interesting journey, to put it mildly.
Did you foresee your YouTube channel evolving into the kind of thing it is today? Have you planned to grow your channel to where it is now?
There's no way anybody could have imagined that it would do what it did. When I posted my first film, I was in Virginia before my move into L.A., and I was looking for ways to inspire myself and meet other dancers. In that moment, fourteen years ago, I was one of the very first dancers to join the platform. I couldn't imagine what would happen. Now the channel has like thirteen million users and 3 billion views. My first video was released and was viral, I remembered people commenting from other countries, and the concept that someone could be watching my videos from a different nation was a mystery to me. I didn't understand it, but here we are today with me performing tours across the globe, thanks to social media as well as the possibility of getting my dancing out there through the internet.
We invite you to take us on a piece of your timeline. Tell us, what blew up the first time? Was it your YouTube channel? Was it your career?
People always think that success in the mainstream or Hollywood industry can lead to the success of online advertising, however it actually converts less than one would imagine. I was doing shows like the Tonight Show, So You Think You Can Dance, The Amazing Race along with many others. I received a variety of television shows that are traditional but they weren't converting much for long-term success. These were also short-term possibilities, but amazing nonetheless.
What really gave me the longevity in my career and the ability to continue this over a decade later is building a community.
The community really came from my dance lessons, which was not planned, but was the most smart thing I did; being an excellent teacher and teacher in the field and pushing a community forward is something that's more difficult to do as a dancer. It was really my work in the form of tutorials and teaching others on the web that made me be a part of a community that's still going strong even to this day.
Are you able to take us through the journey of launching DNCR Academy? When did it turn into an actual company for you?
I started DNCR Academy right at the time of the outbreak. It was something I wanted to do for many years for few reasons. It's a subscription-based platform where people can learn dance instructions. This is a different experience from my YouTube video. On YouTube I post [contentsomewhat inconsistently and the quality isn't necessarily the best. With it, we can't attract many guests or teachers. However, a large portion of dancers have been enjoying YouTube tutorials and wanted additional training. So I created DNCR Academy for the people that are a little more committed. It allows me to attract top instructors, such as Bollywood shuffling, shuffling and dance fitness teachers; styles that I'd never normally do on my own YouTube channel. But on the platform of [DNCR Academy] It's totally acceptable and amazing to be able to offer a ton of diverse styles to our students. When COVID first started, I knew I couldn't perform and that I would have enough time to dedicate to thisendeavor, and so we set aside a couple of months and constructed the platform . It was the month of June in 2020. It's been three amazing three years. I was thinking we were a large community on YouTube However, it took the best of the large community and placed them in a bubble. Everyone is supporting each other. They not only have this support group that's studying with other people around the globe and also an emotional support network with friends that are pushing each other. It's a really positive thing in my life and for dancers at DNCR as well.
Do you have any more details about the community and the motivation for starting DNCR? Was the community in existence before the DNCR Academy, or did it develop in conjunction with it? Do you have any idea of it being an integral factor to the Academy's growth?
I was really afflicted by it with COVID. I believe a lot individuals did. It was difficult to get inspired. The process was challenging to establish a routine because you're stuck at home and aren't able to access anything. Dance in particular is something that's a communal activity. It is possible to dance on your own, but the thing that I love about dance is being in a studio with my friends and the enthusiasm that goes from that. Once that energy is stripped away, it's difficult to find motivation even as a choreographer. It was difficult for me to get the motivation I needed to persevere, therefore I thought, should I go through the same thing, it's likely that another aspiring dancer is also experiencing the same issues and could be helped by a close-knit group. It was already there as a result of the YouTube tutorials. But like I mentioned, there was not a consistent approach, and in order to get great at anything there is essential thing to have in dance] is consistency with your practice. The community enabled us to hold each month challenges. This I consider to be the greatest feature we had in the course of DNCR. It's not just uploading tutorials however, it's an effort to focus on one aspect that everyone will tackle with each other. We're all working on this routine and will post our videos by a deadline. That's where we found enthusiasm; it was the joy when you see all your friends posting their videos as well as the interesting and even constructive feedback that came from that. It's about becoming a part of the community, and actually aiding each other in their growth and grow. I believe this is the most hard to accomplish through YouTube, as it felt that all of us were doing this (the videos) by themselves. The community allowed us to all be in this together. It is a huge change in my own way as a choreographer as well as for the students being capable of learning consistently.
Any customer stories from your local community that you remember? What individual in the group has made an impact on you?
One of my most loyal clients is one who goes by the name of Ray. He's from Washington D. C. He's a lawyer and he started dancing in his 40's. He would come home every morning from work wearing his suit of lawyer and take the table out of the way so that he could practice the hip-hop routines and then he'd end up dancing with his children. They produced a variety of videos, especially over COVID as they learned the dance routines. The result was him appearing on an Disney Channel show and won it. The guy here was 40 and had never taken a dance class in his life, found his passion in the community and became one of the biggest inspirations to our members. This kind of success is really important to celebrate because I too started from nothing. It wasn't until 18 years old, but many people aren't aware of that; most people today have seen me on stage alongside stars and on music videos. Therefore, it's harder to comprehend my struggles I faced early in my career. However, when you look at someone who's currently starting and traversing the process] with you and see how they come out on to the other side of the most amazing adventure, it's incredibly powerful. This really touched all of us in our community. There are plenty of stories like this, however Ray was truly a unique one.
Are you using your network and customers to experiment with new ideas or new products that you have for your business?
One of the things that we're always working on is helping many more people. How can we help more people? There are a lot of dancers out there who want to be great at the skill is pretty small, so we want to provide training on the platform that can get someone to a professional level. But we also are focused in making it affordable for anyone who wants to just learn a routine in a few places, anyone who would like to join a club and feel confident. We're also performing a variety of things related to dance fitness. I'm an instructor for personal training and am convinced that dancing is one of the most effective means to keep in shape physically and mentally. The wedding dance course since I get many requests to create wedding choreographies but , alas, do not have time for it and so this course will take the bride through all you have to learn. We're trying to make it more accessible to the requests that I've received over the years, where I've always said if I had time to do this that it would be wonderful as well as help lots of people. The next step is to create more time for these classes.
Can you give us an overview of how your strategy for social media looks at present? What has changed since you first started on YouTube?
The platform has seen a significant change over the past ten years. It's changed with the multiple generations of YouTube and social media generally. Early on it was not a competitive platform which meant I could only uploading video from my classes. This was all there was. It was then that I realized the power of video and the connection with creators. I began vlogging behind-the scenes content which was incredibly successful between 2016 to 2019. We then began taking on more challenges, like the ability to learn a routine in just 10 minutes. They did very well.
In the year COVID was announced in 2020, we began to see success with TikTok and other short-form media. The world changed drastically after. I'd say that the majority of viewers of dance moved to short form, TikTok in particular, due to the fact that dancing was very widespread in the area. There was still content videos on YouTube however a significant portion of my content was focused on shorter-form content, like 15-second dances instead of forty-five-second to minute-long dances.
The thing about social media, which people do not know, unless they've been around for several generations of it, is that there's not going to be a solution which will work for the rest of time--because regardless of the field that you're in, when you discover something that works and is successful, then everyone is going to copy it, and it's happened in the case of dance videos. The popularity of videos from dance classes exploded and the social media got flooded by dance instructors posting their classes. This led me decide on my next move. This was also duplicated. It's a constant game similar to any other profession that requires you to constantly reinvent yourself and invent and come up with creative strategies. And, the only way to find the ideas that are successful is to shoot darts at a board. A majority of the ideas are going to fail, but that's how you find the one idea that is loved by the majority of people. It's hard to predict and therefore we take the approach of, If I've got the idea to do something, then I run with it. We can try this, and if the idea fails then great. Then we'll look at something else. I think that's the best advice I could give anybody that's trying content creation. Don't be apprehensive and don't think that just since something did not work the first time that it's not going to work the second or third time. Sometimes, you must tweak the idea, shape it and the idea suddenly comes to fruition.
This leads to something we did not discuss that is social media algorithms. How much have algorithms been a part of your plan? Did they affect the ability of your strategy to reach an customers?
Anyone that's used Instagram will know that it's one of the easiest to find. I remember a time in 2019 where I could create a tour flyer which might receive 100,000, 200 likes and hundreds of responses because it was being shown to all of my 3.9 million followers. However, if I shared that flyer in the next day, it'd probably get 10percent of the engagementas the algorithm has been changed. You must therefore be inventive.
Instead of a brochure now, it's a dance video in which the dance takes place and city names pop on the screen and viewers can click to the caption to learn more. The trick is to find different ways to operate within the algorithms, since, at the end of the day, it's impossible to control the algorithm. So we watch a lot of things [metricsregarding time retention. YouTube has changed from being an online search engine, to becoming being more of a click-through-rate-based platform. Are your thumbnail and title powerful enough to draw the attention of viewers? It's possible to create the greatest video ever made, but if your thumbnail and title aren't grabbing viewers, your video will fail. If people watch for the first 10 seconds of an video but then leave it and click elsewhere, YouTube is going to tell you that everybody is loving your thumbnail but your video is not performing effectively, therefore we're not going to display it to your fans. This is how algorithms work in the present. With that said, the strategy of a video has become more focused on notions. I am pretty sure that we can make engaging content and great videos, however, if the content is getting used to a routine, there are a million options for packaging the thumbnail and title, as well as the length of the video , as well as the style of the video. All of this can affect the quality of content. I was averaging 30 million viewers on a video over the course of two years. That's ridiculous. Unfortunately, for those of you that know about the monetization issue due to copyright issues with music, I was not in a position to make money from those videos, but in terms of growing my channel, it was insane. Things have certainly changed from that time a bit, especially due to TikTok as well as Instagram taking up so much of the market portion.
Since you bring up the idea of monetization did that in all affect your plans to launch DNCR Academy, or was it just strictly to move offline online?
The thing is, whenever attention shifted from YouTube to split between TikTok as well as Instagram data across the board on YouTube fell, and that was my main method was funding the tutorials, and all of that was by and monetization...
During COVID, people wanted more and more [content] however there was not as much monetization happening within the channel. It was enough to make it scaleable, and so that was one of the things that I loved about DNCR. Now, we have members that pay a monthly membership fee so we can take these cash and put it back in new and improved courses and production. Basically, into all of the things that I wanted to accomplish and for which YouTube did not provide enough income to be able to accomplish. This was an effective method of earning money to grow the tutorials and the platform and to give students the content they asked for.
What can you do to deal the burnout that comes with every aspect of the social media producing content?
I don't feel like I'm really old, but in social media, I've been there from the beginning of time. It's quite amazing how many generations have gone to an end, and the reasons why people become tired is due to a few things. It seems like they had their expectations and schedule a little too high and heavy at the start. For instance I recall a time from 2016 until 2017 when all of my friends decided to do every day Vlogs. For anyone who's done a daily vlog is a slog. The amount of work required in order to manage editing, filming and conceiving daily is nearly impossible. I've always kept my channel at one or two uploads a week. It was something I could keep. I was sure I traveled. I also ensured I was taking time off. If there wasn't a great tune that was released one week or I was not feeling motivated to dance, I cancelled the class. I ensured that the content creation was something I was able to do regularly, which has helped me maintain my longevity.
One thing I've done to avoid burnout is setting realistic goals for myself. It's my opinion that in the beginning, when you're only starting out, it's best to stick to one or two platforms. Make it easy. On YouTube, upload twice a week, and then make edits to the content, and then cut the content to make it shorter to put onto Instagram and TikTok. Be able to handle it. It's best to develop a little bit slower and yet still possess the spark of enthusiasm and the desire to keep creating content five to 10 years down the road, and then work hard for a few months, you'll burn out and then fall off. The key is being consistent. This is a long-term game in spite of the fact that it appears like things are happening at a rapid pace.
Are you able to offer any other tips for creators who are trying to use social media in order to bring visitors to their site or product, or creating their own?
The most important thing is to figure out , if you were your viewers, or your customers' shoes, what might make you want to quit a platform and join an online subscription or course. It's true that a lot of times we feel like 'I'll just do this and this', and are thinking of it from our perspective. Therefore, I conduct a number of surveys--I ask my followers regularly what kind of course you hope to take in the near future or which one would you find the most exciting about. At times, I think they want this amazing choreography that is difficult and complicated that they're thinking "Look, Bro, I'm just looking for a couple of moves I can show in a celebration.' And I'm saying 'Okay, this week we're going to discover moves that you could try out in a dance party. It's great to put yourself in the shoes of others.
Another thing is providing value. If you're able to offer value and without asking for anything back or asking for anything in return building trust, rapport, and feel part of a community, when you do offer something that's a paid program or offer, there's already the trust. It's already been a great value and made your customers' life so much easier by your offerings that they're more than happy to jump in and be an integral part of it. I think sometimes we commit the error of trying to get the sale before we have established the relationship with our customers. And that's one of the great aspects of social media: you have the opportunity to engage with your fans all day long, whether it's videos on dance or simply sharing your day-to-day life, while also building relationships as well as establishing a community. after that, you'll be like, "Oh, by the way, if you've loved your work and you're happy with it, let's see if you can go on a further level. It's an simple transition to make instead of meeting them at the start and trying to put them into a group right immediately.
Many creators in the space think that really the only option to make income is through brands and affiliate-style deals on social media, which you've obviously proven to be incorrect. What would you tell new creators in terms of expanding their revenue streams?
Brands and affiliate marketing are one piece of the puzzle. It is a different component to the piece. It is important to need to make sure you have an element out of the social networks which also generate incomesince, at the end of the day there is no way to predict which algorithm or rules be changed. This is something I've learned through the years since there have been times when I was making most of my income through YouTube, when I was earning the majority of my money through live events and tours in other times, when I earned the majority of my money from TikTok as well as Instagram as well, and today, it's . At different stages in my career, that thing has switched several times. And if I had all of my money in one place, and I was simply looking forward to brand partnerships or YouTube to change their algorithms to allow me to monetize more heavily then I'd have ended up trapped. was stuck.
Build a community and start to move your fans off social platforms towards a subscription-based service like , where you control your content and the your community. Now, you don't have to depend on an algorithm to serve your community the content you have. It's just, boom, you're in DNCR and users can get access to anytime they want. The power is returned to the creators. The world is changing fast and it's harder than ever to rely on brand deals and monetization as you're not sure where the social media platforms will take you next.
Could you explain to us about the part it played in allowing you to have control over and control over your destiny as an artist?
The platform gave us to create content where the rules will remain the same. I think that's the biggest thing. Like I was saying previously, there was a time where I had 30 million views per film on YouTube. And now, other than perhaps MrBeast as well as a few other exceptions, that's almost impossible, even with a channel that has 13 million members. Only a small percentage of those subscribers are served my material. It's vital tobuild a community, move them to somewhere you can use them as well as connect to you regularly. On a basic level, things like an email list and a text list can be great to have, but being part of a group apart from social media platforms is the best means to remain in touch, and also build passive income as an artist, particularly if you're doing something like a subscription. It's a great way to not only know that you've got your contacts in one place where you can speak to themand for them to connect with youas well, but also provide an ongoing stream of income.
What's one suggestion you'd provide to an entrepreneur who's just beginning within the field?
I'd recommend that you heavily research your field. Before you ever upload a single piece of content on TikTok take a look at a month's worth of content on Tiktok. It is possible to tinker with your ideas and start making stuff, but I see a lot of time wasted because people aren't doing some research before they start. You love fitness and want to create an online fitness business look up the top ten people working in this field on social media, watch ten hours of their content, learn the reasons why they work and then develop your own content strategy starting there.
Now, there's more data than you've been able to access, specifically via YouTube and TikTok, so the answers are all there. It's not necessary to completely re-invent the wheel completely and perform an exercise routine that nobody has seen before, right? But, you have to come up with a method to accomplish something that is unique, with your personal style and your own voice. It's possible to do that by researching people you love, taking what they've done well, adding in the stuff you've created creating an approach to content. However, I believe that you must humble yourself to know what you're not aware of. This is what I'm doing now. Every year, at least, I take a few weeks where I pretend like I don't know anything while I look. What is it that the youngsters on TikTok who are 14 who are doing something different than us OGs of the business aren't able to comprehend? You can argue that one dancing isn't appropriate or something it is, however there's a purpose that people can identify with the dance, and I must understand the reason this is so that I can continue to improve myself not just creatively, but also for my business. Putting a lot of time in the study is essential in the process of developing your content strategy. And when you've finally got your strategyin place, it's up to you to go hard.
Make your own destiny digital items
The creation economy is expected to witness a surge of online communities by 2023. Social platforms know this too--and respond with making the community feature of their own.
But as Matt mentioned, in order for creators to reach their target audience in a meaningful manner and earn an income that is passive, they must to get their followers off social media.
"Brands and affiliate marketing " are one piece of the piece. Monetization is another piece. But ideally, you want to make use of platforms on social networks that are in turn generating income since, at the end of the day, you don't have any idea when the algorithms or rules will be changed. That's something I've learned through the years since there was a time that I made the bulk of my earnings from YouTube or TikTok, and now, it's ."
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